I was struck by some of the glaring misconceptions I encountered while going through the MEQ/SAQ scripts of the just completed end of posting exam of Y3M at Sibu. I would share and help clear some of these misconceptions harbored by some of year 3 students. WHAT THE STUDENTS WROTE ARE GIVEN IN CAPITAL LETTERS and my explanations in sentence case.
LUMMBAR PUNCTURE (LP) CAN CAUSE STROKE / HERNIATION OF SPINAL CORD: Stroke is not a complication of LP, there is no logic in this answer. LP can cause herniation of the brainstem or uncus through the foramen magnum. Spinal cord starts below the foramen magnum so no question of herniation of spinal cord.
OGTT TO DIAGNOSE ACROMEGALY: Glucose load is used to suppress GH secretion. In acromegaly glucose load will not be able to suppress the GH secretion. This test should be called GH suppression test using glucose. OGTT is used to diagnose diabetes.
SUDDEN STEROID WITHDRAWAL CAN CAUSE END STAGE RENAL FAILURE: Where do you get this idea from?
PREDNISOLONE FUNCTIONS AS AN NSAID: NSAID means non-steroidal anti inflammatory drugs and prednisolone is a steroid, so no sense in this statement.
EPILEPSY DESCRIBED AS TWITCHING OF MUSCLES: Twitching of muscles might be used to describe fasciculation or myoclonus, but not convulsion. Epilepsy is diagnosed when patient has repeated seizures without a known cause. A generalized convulsion with loss of consciousness is termed seizure.
TRANSIENT LOSS OF CONSCIOUSNESS (LOC) ATTRIBUTED TO CAROTID STENOSIS: Consciousness is maintained by the reticular activating system situated in the brainstem. Loss of blood supply to this area - supplied by the vertebrobasilar system (posterior circulation) can sometimes cause LOC. A unilateral cerebral lesion does not cause LOC. Cerebral lesion has to be bilateral and massive to cause LOC. The usual way in which a cerebral stroke causes LOC is by herniation of brain substance through the tentorium cerebelli leading to compression of the vital structures in the brainstem.
INABILITY TO CLOSE AN EYE ATTRIBUTED TO PARALYSIS OF LEVATOR PALPABRAE SUPERIORIS (LPS) SUPPLIED BY CRANIAL NERVE VII (FACIAL NERVE): This shows the poor antomical background of the student. First of all LPS is not innervated by CN VII, but by CN III (Occulomotor) and its action is to elevate the upper eyelid. Paralysis of LPS will cause ptosis of the eyelid. Eye closure involves orbicularis occuli, innervated by CN VII. A lower motor neurone lesion of CN VII will cause ipsilateral inability to close the eye. An upper motor neurone lesion will spare the upper part of the face, including the orbicularis occuli. Remember the UMN fibers innervating the right facial nerve nucleus come from the left cerebral cortex and vice verse.
NECK BRIUT IS DUE TO HIGH CARDIAC OUTPUT DUE TO HYPERTENSION: A bruit results from turbulent flow through a stenosis in an artery. It can also occur when there is excessive blood flow through the thyroid gland in hyperthyroidism or through a malignant tumour like hepatocellular carcinoma or an arterio-venous fistula. The confusion may be related to the flow murmur created by high flow through pulmonary / aortic valve. Hypertension does not cause high cardiac output. Increased vascular tone is what increases the blood pressure. Increased stroke volume in aortic regurgitation can increase the systolic pressure. Hypertension does not increase cardiac output.
LOUD AORTIC SECOND SOUND (A2) IS DUE TO HIGH CARDIAC OUTPUT: A2 is produced by the closure of the aortic valve. If there is increased pressure in the systemic circulation, it will close more forcefully causing a loud A2, so it is found in hypertension. A2 is softer in aortic stenosis. There is no loud A2 when cardiac output is increased. S1 can be loud when there is hyperdynamic circulation.
FASTING PLASMA GLUCOSE OF 6.8 mmol/L IS A BIT LOWER THAN NORMAL (7 mmol/L) AND 2 HOUR POST GLUCOSE PLASMA GLUCOSE OF 11.0 IS ALSO LOWER THAN NORMAL (11.1). SO THE PATIENT IS HYPOGLYCAEMIC: The student has apparently taken the plasma glucose level diagnostic of diabetes as the normal level and anything below that as hypoglycaemia. On the contrary, a FPG of 5.6 and 2-hr Post glucoe plasma glucose level of 7.8 and above (but less than 11.1) should be considered abnormal - prediabetes or impaired fasting glucose / impaired glucose tolerance. Prediabetes also carries higher risk of coronary artery disease.
LOWER MOTOR NEURONE (LMN) LESION DUE TO STROKE: Stroke being a vascular lesion either in the brain or brainstem, the only LMN lesion it can cause is that of the cranial nerve nuclei originating in the brainstem. There is no LMN lesion of the limbs in any stroke. Students often attribute the hypotonia and hyporeflexia of limbs found in the acute stages of stroke to LMN lesion. There is no basis for this. The typical features of spasticity and hyperreflexia and clonus may take a day or two to manifest. It is still upper motor neurone lesion from day one.
NUCLEAR VII NERVE PALSY TERMED AS BELL'S PALSY: Bell's palsy is also a LMN lesion of the VII cranial nerve, but it is not a nuclear lesion. It is a lesion outside the brainstem before the nerve emerges from the skull.
DYSARTHRIA ATTRIBUTED TO SPEECH CENTRE LESION: Dysarthria is difficulty in articulation of words with no problem in the language function. Patient can still think normally, form words and write if the power in the hand muscles are adequate. Dysarthria is purely due to weakness of the muscles involved in articulation - tongue, face, palate, pharynx. Cranial nerve lesions V, VII, X, XII will affect articulation and cause dysarthria. On the other hand, speech centre lesions cause dysphasia (aphasia) – abnormality in reception or expression of language. Of course a lesion causing dysphasia can also be associated with weakness of cranial nerves. So it is possible for dysphasia to be associated with dysarthria. But dysarthria can be without dysphasia.
HYPERTROPHIC CARDIOMYOPATHY SECONDARY TO HYPERTENSION:Cardiomyopathy is essentially idiopathic. Hypertension is not a cause of cardiomyopathy. Left ventricular hypertrophy can occur in hypertension and it is entirely different from hypertrophic obstructive cardiomyopathy, which is not associated with hypertension.
MANY STUDENTS WROTE HYPOGLYCAEMIA AS A CAUSE OF TRANSIENT LOSS OF CONSCIOUSNESS: This is beyond my understanding. First of all hypoglycaemia has to be very severe to cause loss of consciousness. It is called hypoglycaemic coma. It is a fatal condition unless reversed by glucose given intravenously to raise the plasma glucose level to normal. There is no chance of hypoglycaemic coma getting back to normal spontaneously. Then how can it be the cause of transient loss of consciousness??
ASPIRIN LYSES EMBOLUS: Neither aspirin nor any other antiplatelet agent (clopidogrel, ticlopidine, dipyridamole) would lyse a embolus. Clots can be lysed using throbolytic agents (fibrinolytic agents) like streptokinase, tPA. The function of antiplatelet agents is to inhibit platelt adhesion and chances of thrombosis - only prophylactic effect.
POSTERIOR CIRCULATION STROKE CAUSING DYSPHASIA: Speech centres are are supplied by middle cerebral artery, not by posterior cerebral artery.
MANY STUDENTS RECOMMENDED USE OF tPA AND STREPTOKINASE FOR SECONDARY PREVENTION OF STROKE: This arises from lack of understanding of the terms primary prevention, secondary prevention and treatment. Primary prevention is done by taking measures to prevent the risk factors in order to avoid developing a disease. If you already have the disease, then applying measures (including drugs)to prevent another attack of the same disease is called secondary prevention. Treatment includes measures taken to abort the manifestations of the disease when it has already occurred. Streptokinase and tPA are thrombolytic agents used to lyse a clot (treatment. Secondary prevention measures include antiplatelet agents, antihypertensives, antidiabetics, statins etc.
MICTURITION AND COUGH WILL DECREASE VENOUS RETURN TO HEAD AND CAUSE SYNCOPE: The student seems to know that cough and micturition can cause syncope, but unable to explain the mechanism. First of all, there is no question of venous return to the head. Venous blood returns to the right chambers of the heart. A paroxysm of cough and straining (for micturition in the elderly men with prostatic enlargement)for any purpose will increase intrathoracic pressure (as well as intraabdominal pressure). Increased intrathoracic pressure will prevent venous return to the right cardiac chambers from the systemic veins, which will lead to a fall in cardiac output as well as blood pressure causing syncope.
SOME STUDENTS ARE UNABLE TO PERCEIVE THAT A SINGLE LESION CAN CAUSE A CROSSED PARALYSIS: Crossed paralysis means cranial nerve lesion on one side and limb weakness on the opposite side. This will not happen in a cerebral lesion because UMN fibers innervating cranial nerves and limbs cross to the opposite side at different levels in the brainstem. A lesion in the brainstem will destroy cranial nerve nuclei on the same side (their UMN fibers have already crossed over to innervate them) and cause limb paralysis on the contralateral side (as the pyramidal tract has not yet crossed). It crosses at the lower part of the medulla.
HEAVING APEX BEAT DUE TO RIGHT VENTRICULAR HYPERTROPHY(RVH) / RIGHT ATRIAL HYPERTROPHY): RVH will cause a left parasternal heave, not a heaving apex beat (it will be found in left ventricular hypertrophy. Right atrium forming apex beat is beyond imagination. Right atrium lies at the right cardiac border, far away from the apex.
To be continued
Sunday, November 22, 2009
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regarding the acromegaly, what if we didn't answer the exact term that you have mentioned above "GH supression test using glucose"..but instead we answer GH level is not supressed by the OGTT?
ReplyDeleteactually i have a comment to make regarding MEQ..the first page of the first MEQ question, the question was actually not easy to be understood. i have to read until 3,4 times before i finally let go of my hand to write the answers(while my brain is still trying to figure out what it actually means).by hook or by crook, whether the question is understood or not, i still have to fill in the blank as the time is running fast. i could not really get what the question was about.
ReplyDeleteexpectedly, i was not the only one caught in that situation. many of us found ourselves in the same circumstance.
thus i supposed the question should be previewed carefully before being published so that we would not get confused (even if we finally got the right meaning, we have actually wasted our time beforehand)
please do not be thrilled from the comment of eng tah only..i hope the rest would still be considered..tq
ReplyDeleteOGTT does not diagnose acromegaly. As its name indicates, it is a test for glucose tolerance. GH is not measured in OGTT. So the correct term should be GH suppression test (using oral glucose load)
ReplyDeleteThe comments from the second batch of students were really disheartening, not thrilling at all. In spite of all our good intentions and efforts, some (usually the pessimistic ones) only see the negative aspects. Usually the negative comments over power the positive ones and give a bad light to the whole posting. It will be good if the good comments are also highlighted.
ReplyDeleteFor example, there were a few bad comments about the PCR. I am sure many of you found PCR very useful. If nobody explains what was bad about PCR, how will we know? If we scrap PCR based on two bad comments, it will not be fair.
So I would like all of you to clearly state why you thought certain items were bad, what was good about what you thought good items.
Regarding MEQ 1, the question 1 was
ReplyDelete"Give TWO most likely conditions you would consider as a cause of his symptoms. Give their THREE differentiating features". The symptom was episodes of brief loss of consciousness in the absence of arrhythmias and neurological deficit.
Most of the students understood the question. Many gave correct answer, but some went astray. Remember this problem was discussed in detail in one of my PCRs
i'm sorry if i have to write certain things..but this is just to explain the situation since Prof Thomas have been a few times highlighting to us to state the reason why students don't like PCR..
ReplyDeletei actually could see the unsatisfied face of the students almost always everyday during the PCR..This is what i think the reason for that, but i'm not so sure about the other students.actually, in my own opinion,PCR is a good idea..at least the students have something to work on during their on-call. because,to tell the truth, not all students really "on-call" during their on-call time..some came very late and disappeared, leaving the other members to work out the cases for tomorrow's PCR.let's just forget about the irresponsible student, the responsible ones must have gained something.good for them.
the disadvantage of PCR for our rotation is that we're discussing the same case --> dengue fever everyday. no extra information is gained. everyday is the same thing. the difference is with different lecturers, and thus different style..i think that is the reason why students showed uninterested face.it is similar as having a BST with the same case everyday.sooner or later, they'll get bored.i supposed it'll get more interesting if we gained new information..
to be continued..
i have a suggestion to make, for PCR, try not to lengthen the discussion (especially if it's the same case everyday).there were some times the PCR was dragged for too long until it exceeded the clinic time. at 9.30 am, we were still discussing the HOPI..and the case was a typical dengue fever.
ReplyDeletetry to simplify it and discuss other important topics right after that.just like what Prof Henry did everytime he came. but Prof Henry covered mostly were his topics (haematology) only. what about the other 8 systems? there are so many hundreds of cases which we hardly (or almost never) see in the ward. if the case was never in the ward, so it will never be in BST. if it's so, does that mean that it will never be taught even until the end of the posting? cause it seemed to be so.
and yet the case was never taught..but does that mean that it will never be in exam?well the previous exam says no.
as an example, i heard my friends getting a hardly-discussed-case, pseudobulbar palsy in the long case. and there's another never-see-case and never-discussed-case guillain barre.while others were happy getting the everyday-admitted-case, dengue fever and malaria, these students were crying and in despair.
that's just so sad and so unfair.
that's why post call should be discussing about the cases which may appear in the exams but never/hardly see in the ward.discussing about common fever in the first week of posting is fine..but discussing it everyday until the 9th week is not really fine..it is like a significant neglection to other topics.
if the case appearing in long case is desired to be moderate or high level of difficulty, then the common fever being discussed everyday should not come out.
and yet if it happened to be that students cannot answer the questions asked about the common fever (i.e. dengue / malaria) during the exams, it's their mistake and their biggest problem. but if the students cannot answer the questions for the cases which are never discussed for the whole posting, i honestly think they should not be penalised. medicine includes hundreds and hundreds of cases from 9systems. if we read about rare diseases twice or three times without seeing it and examining in the ward, trust me it hardly stick to the mind. and even to imagine those rare cases are also almost impossible as it is never in the ward. there are still very very much of other common cases queueing in the mind.
and frankly speaking, in this case, seminar is not helpful. the whole system with A LOT of cases being presented in the average of 2hours..(even 2 systems in 2hours)..and plus presented by the students who does not have the experience of seeing the cases in the real life..i believe we all can imagine how every information can be very packed and mixed up..we, students, understand the seminar situation very well..
continue from above..
ReplyDeletei hope thru this i have given the answer for the current question. i was being honest thruout the whole lengthy comment, so i am sorry if it is mentioning about anybody.please accept in the positive side as i wish this posting which was managed nicely, can progress some more by correcting a few things..
tq..
Dear Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThank you for bringing our certain pertinent issues.
As I have expressed many times as well as in the guidebook, clinical medicine is learned at the bedside. If you read books and never see cases it is not going to stick in the mind. You say, cases never seen in the ward! But have you seen all the cases in the ward, and make an attempt to examine them?
It is not possible to teach everything. Medicine is so vast. You are used to SDL. It is for mature students. One has to come out of the secondary school spoon-feeding methods and start doing SDL. I am sure those of you who had the initiative and interest have done well.
As far as I know there was no case of GBS or pseudobulabar palsy in the exam. These might have come up as differential diagnosis. Who informed you these were the cases?
I think the examiners were all experienced veterans. They would not punish a student unless and until they found serious deficiencies in the student. Some element of 'luck' is there. To be fair to everybody the teams were allocated by drawing lots, the student numbers were picked by students, the cases were also allocated by asking students to pick and choose from the available few.
PCR - I have always finished in the given time and taken care not to harp on trivial things, but give relevant and important points.
Seminars - One advantage of seminar is that the presenters read-up the topic and become good in it. If the others do not do the same and participate actively, it defeats the purpose. we have abolished giving marks for seminars in order to avoid the stress and to encorage them to present more lucidly. The ideal situation will be when the facilitator takes active interest and intervene, correct, emphasise, and teach important points.
Lectures as such were avoided as it makes the students passive, and sometimes boring. But there is adequate opportunity for the lecturers to teach during PCR as well as seminars.
I would like to thank for the good explanation of the different between dysphagia and dysarthria.
ReplyDelete::[[So it is possible for dysphasia to be associated with dysarthria. But dysarthria can be without dysphasia.]]
Regarding the stroke, during my medicine posting last time, i did examine few stroke patients in the ward. Just want to share my experience in the ward.
The first one was a 60 plus years old female had hypertensive haemorrhagic stroke. The presentation were hyperreflexia and hypertonia, which was examined within 24 hours after onset. However, the next day, when examine again on the same patient, she presented with hypotonia and hyporeflexia(or no reflex) at the affected side.
The second case was a 50 plus years old woman, presented with ischaemic-hypoxic stroke as well. I examined her lower limbs on the next day of the onset. What i found was that the affected side presented with hypotonia and hyporelexia, band no Babinski's sign. Then, two days after that, I examined her again, with our lecturer. She was still presented with hypotonia and hoporeflexia. But her babinski's sign was positive at the affected side. Our lecturer said it was still considered as the early onset, this is why she presented with sign of lower motor neuron lesions.
The third case i examine was a case. which the patient had history of stroke last year, currently presented with recurrent ischamic-hypoxic stroke at the same area( as reported in the CT scan). But this time, i really can appreciate the presentation of typical upper motor neuron lesion. I will consider that the presentation was due to the lesion caused by the last year. Maybe the current presentation will contribute to her current presentation.
For all the three cases mentioned, both had intact sensory. pain and other sensation.
What i would like to conclude here is that, stroke patients had variety of presentations. This is why sometime i am also confused with when the patient will present with UMN lesion or LMN lesion.
ALLEN CHAI SHIUN CHAT
YEAR 3 Medical student
Dear Allen,
ReplyDeleteStroke means always UMN lesion, except when it is located in the brainstem - then it causes a LMN lesion ipsilaterally of the cranial nerve nuclei along with UMN lesion of the limbs contralaterally.
Even if the findings are hypotonia and hyporeflexia, as in the early stages, you don't call it LMN lesion. The lesion is UMN in the brain. Only the manifestation changes with time.
Think, how can stroke involve LMN? (except when the lesion is in the brainstem). LMN means the neurone starting with anterior horn cells in the spinal cord. They are untouched. They suffer because their UMN control is lost.
Please let me know, if there is confusion still!
Wow, this is a very interesting discussion going on right here!! I think if other lecturers are participating as well, the forum will be more fun and enthusiastic-the more the merrier :P.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, reading each and every explanation given by you - I was somehow confused by this statement -->
"MANY STUDENTS WROTE HYPOGLYCAEMIA AS A CAUSE OF TRANSIENT LOSS OF CONSCIOUSNESS: This is beyond my understanding. First of all hypoglycaemia has to be very severe to cause loss of consciousness. It is called hypoglycaemic coma. It is a fatal condition unless reversed by glucose given intravenously to raise the plasma glucose level to normal. There is no chance of hypoglycaemic coma getting back to normal spontaneously. Then how can it be the cause of transient loss of consciousness??"
As far as I am concern (if I'm not confused), in case of diabetic patient who is under insulin treatment, if they took the insulin without taking meal or had overdosage of insulin, that can cause hypoglycaemia in which patient may present with tremor, anxiety, sweating, palpitation and later syncope. Hypoglycaemic coma develops when the glucose level is severely deficient in the body.
I had found once a case like this and the advise given by the attending doctor was to consume sweetened drink/candy/glucose to restore the glucose level as well as to treat the symptoms.
Well, hope u can further explain this misconception once again.
Finally, on behalf of other students, I truly apologize for the disheartening comments given by students after all the good deeds and hard works done by lecturers. When anger controls mind, words are even sharper than swords. Hope that won't weakened your dedication towards teaching and educating.
Sorry, I could not visit the blog for a week. The above comment says transient LOC could be due to hypoglycaemia. I continue to defend my statement that it is not true. As you mentioned, when the patient has hypoglycaemic symptoms and consumes glucose or any food, the hypoglycaemia will be aborted and the patient becomes back to normal. LOC occurs only if there is neuroglycopenia - which is when the blood blucose level is quite low. Once the patient is unconscious, how can he/she consume anything sweet and regain consciousness?? If the patient is brought to hospital and receives IV glucose and regains consciousness, it is another matter. It is not called transient loss of consciousness as there is no spontaneous recovery.
ReplyDelete